If you were writing a book using either of these two interviews would have given a very different slant to whatever was being written.

Thanks to Greg Whitfield for permission to reproduce his interview.

"I respected my influences enough to never imitate them. That was always important to me. It still is."
(Keith Levene)

"So my advice is -- Panic! But do not be frightened. Your ears are naturally made to take in much bigger wattage. They do not need to be fused. Just checK: Does all that round edged, soft focused, smooth and clean sounding music you hear on flat plastic and vinyl provide any dynamics at all to stimulate your ears, mind and body? At last... disorientate yourself." (Steve "On the Wire" Barker: early ONU Sound sleeve notes)

It's a cold and windy day as I make my way to Levene's Missing Channel Studio in North East London. He opens the door; a slim wiry figure, dressed in black flight jacket and black jeans, his familiar shock of blonde hair immediately conjuring up memories of those early PIL record sleeves. He invites me into his flat; a very large spacious loft area, with high white walls, metal pillars, heavy wooden flooring and massive gallery windows overlooking the energy and movement of East London's urban sprawl -- I glance out over wind swept, busy streets reflecting London's flux and diversity. Hassidic Rabbi's stroll past serene Rasta's (otherworldy in their pre occupations) mingling with the newer waves of Vietnamese and Kurdish immigrants.

Half of Levene's large and spacious flat has been converted into a studio, the other half is his home. A drum kit and mixing desk dominate the centre of the studio (bear in mind, Levene played drums on the Steel Leg EP with Don Letts, as well as playing on some of the Metal Box tracks) -- an array of guitars are neatly stacked against the walls. The piles of records and books scattered about the room reflect something of Levene's taste: a lot of it is bass heavy classic Jamaican tunes from the early 60's onwards -- records by great men like Don Drummond (the audaciously talented and original hornsman who died in a sanatorium for the mentally ill in Kingston, Jamaica), the Cuban -- Jamaican sax player Tommy Mcook, Studio One legend Roland Alphonso, some Can albums (Tago Mago) and some free jazz (Billy Cobham). There are piles of books -- mainly on physics, quantum theory, the origins of underwater sea life and works on art and cinema ("Escher has always been a favourite of mine" says Levene ).

Levene formed The Flowers of Romance with Sid Vicious and The Slit's Viv Albertine, co wrote some of The Clash's first album (after stealing Joe Strummer from the 101'ers), played on the first three definitive PIL records, aswell as later going on to record some tracks with the best UK and Jamaican reggae artists: Serious, dignified and spiritual chanters such as Bim Sherman and Prince Far I. Check out Levene's sparse but intense work on Singers and Players War of Words, Creation Rebel's Threat To Creation and Dub Syndicate's Stoned Immaculate.

Whilst aspects of Levene's guitar style heard on those PIL and ONU albums does arguably have some precedents in the works of Keith Hudson (Satan Side and Hunting), Earl Chinna Smit, (Nature Dub from East of The River Nile), and Coxsonne tunes like Zoot Sims' Studio One side, African Challenge, Levene has never been over derivative in his work, and his guitar patterns are clearly very much his own. As Keith explains, "I respected my influences enough to never imitate them. That was always very important to me -- It still is. What you hear on a PIL record is no steal, you understand?" Levene and Lydon circa 78 >>

'Reaching the Badman' and 'Devious Woman'/'Threat To Creation' with the late Bim Sherman are serious tunes -- deeply inventive, strange guitar loops and jagged ice like patterns raise these tracks to new levels of innovation far above generic form and structure. Like his playing and composition on Metal Box and Flowers of Romance these sparse sounds cannot effectively be compared to other artists or even, for the most part, adequately described. The guitar sounds and structures Levene creates just are.

Such are noises that defy categorisation.

Essentially, Levene's best work has sought a new anti structure and syntax, which has all too often been absorbed by other musicians and passed off as their own creation -- but as the mic chanter Prince Far I cantankerously emphasises in his autobiographical invocation on his Staggering Heights ONU Sound album, "First is first and second is nothing. Check it!"

His exit from PIL also saw him recording with ground-breaking industrial noise funk outfits, namely some of the ex members of The Sugar Hill Gang -- Keith Le Blanc, Doug Wimbish and Skip McDonald had made up the backbone of The Sugar Hill rhythm section, recording the pounding physical funk of 'White Lines', 'The Message' and 'Malcolm X' all released on the Tommy Boy label. These musicians were making records with a drum sound like a concrete door being blown off its hinges, the snares punching holes in the mix. Whilst in LA, Levene also worked with Flea and Hillel from Red Hot Chilli Peppers, and members of the famed early hardcore band, Fishbone, recording loose and aggressive metallic funk tunes like 'Looking for Something' and a surprisingly low key and spiritual version of the Hendrix tune 'If 6 was 9'. He also found time to contribute to a movie soundtrack.

Should the listener still feel any need or desire to categorise the Levene sound, it would arguably be better to give up.

There is a lot to talk about : A whole lot of history to discover -- Levene, like Lydon and Jah Wobble, has somewhat of a reputation of being a person that speaks his mind, tells it as it is, as he feels it. And indeed, it's true. Like Wobble and Lydon, you get the impression Levene is not someone you're going to mess around. (But beyond that, there is a certain directness, a sensitivity to his character, a lack of pretentiousness, and what seems to be an ever present sense of mischievousness and humour, close to the surface. Levene is quick witted, with dark and intelligent eyes -- his mind moves rapidly, jumping fast from subject to subject. "My mind thinks about so many things at the same time, so excuse me if I change the subject fast or answer your question with a very different point!" Levene explains, with a spirited smile.) Lydon circa '78 with Levene's guitar >>

Over the years, the press has enjoyed pumping up the supposed drama of the enmity between the ex members of PIL -- the mistrust, bitterness, anger, paranoia and resentment that Wobble, Levene and Lydon apparently feel for each other, but throughout this interview, I sensed nothing of the sort from Levene, but rather a sense of fondness and regard for Lydon, and a definite recognition of what Jah Wobble has achieved.