Phil Rowland Interview 2003

The Ruts - Jennings & Ruffy

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The Ruts were one of the most, if not the most powerful and innovative bands to come out of the post-punk era. From the humorous rant of ‘I Ain’t Sofisticated’ to the reggae cross-over of a song like ‘Jah War’ their musical integrity always shines through. And whereas a lot of their contemporaries from that period now sound dated, the Ruts still sound fresh and exciting setting the rare example of how to write and record songs that last. The following interview took place somewhere in deepest Brixton with Segs Jennings and Dave Ruffy, the bass player and drummer of the Ruts, respectively.

Whether 1992 or 2002 interviews keep like fine wines! This one is from 1992 and by Chris Jones-May and courtesy of Ed from Hometown Atrocities. Enjoy!

Are you surprised that someone still wants to interview you about the Ruts?
Segs Jennings: I’m not surprised, no, because we were a fantastic band! Actually I’ve found there’s been a lot of interest in us lately. When I’m talking to people in the ‘dance’ market there’s actually a lot of respect for the Ruts. So I’m not surprised that anyone wants to do an interview from that aspect, its just that no one else does.

When, where, and how were you formed?
Dave Ruffy: Paul Fox and myself were playing in this band called Hit And Run round about ‘75 and ‘76. I’d met Segs about that time. He was sort of a roadie. It was a good laugh. We did quite a lot of gigs. Malcolm was a friend of Pauls who he’d known for years. We all knew a lot of the same people. Then the punk thing came along and we all liked this music and thought we can all do that, sort of thing. Malcolm was DJing a bit at the time, doing a few bits and pieces, ducking and diving. We talked to Paul about getting a band together. So the first Ruts line-up was me on Bass, though I was playing drums with Hit And Run, Paul Mattock, who was like the songwriter in Hit And Run, was our drummer, Paul on guitar and Malcolm singing. Our first gig was at The Target on the A40. We played 4 songs in between the sets of Hit And Run. The Target was a big pub with loads of bars and they were all busy. When we played everyone came flooding in to watch. It was a good vibe and sound. Then we did another gig at someones wedding! (much laughter) There was a bit of a vibe in the area about the Ruts then and the Hit And Run band were getting pissed off about it. Paul and I then discovered there was a rehearsal. So we went down to this rehearsal and it was quiet when we got there. Then we saw there was another drummer there and another guitarist. They said they’d been offered a one-off single deal with Aristola to do a disco version of Greensleeves. They were really serious and said you’re either in the band or out of the band. So we said O.K. See ya. Paul Mattock decided to carry on with Hit And Run, I moved onto drums and Segs joined us on bass after a couple of weeks. Then that was it. We had our band then. There was something about it when we all got together. How can I put it? It was really exciting. Things clicked.

How were the songs written?
S.J: We started using this squat in New Cross. That’s where we wrote quite a lot of the really good ones. That was brilliant. We just used to jam and record everything on this little Phillips cassette player. Basically the songs were band compositions. Malcolm never used to come up with any music as such. All of our stuff was really fast and he’d come in and he’d say, for example, with ‘It Was Cold’ - I wanna do one that’s kind of futuristic and slow. So he was influential in that way and he wrote most of the lyrics.

How long did the LP The Crack take to record and mix?
D.R: It took about 3 weeks altogether. We were all pretty rehearsed before we went into the studio. We all knew the songs very well from playing live. Our collective will was very strong. With Virgin we were a big budget kind of a band so we used the best studios. Also, our producer, Mick Glossop, was known as a really hot engineer and he used recording techniques that were ahead of their time.

The subject of Malcolm Owen’s heroin addiction and death was obviously a sensitive one, but also essential to the interview. I was unsure how to ask about it. In the end, I didn’t have to...
D.R: Malcolm’s heroin problem lasted for about 9 months to a year. It was a slow thing. Before he died we actually decide to split the band up. It was the only thing we could do. Heroin affects everything. He was just lying all the time and he wouldn’t turn up for things. He was really trying to kick it but his life was in a mess. His woman had left him and all that. In order to try and get him off it we split the band. It was the last resort really. There was a lot of grief at the time. I mean we were all special friends. What happened was he went in for a clean-up at the clinic for a couple of weeks and then came out. He’d gone through the physical thing. He hadn’t had any for a fortnight. It all happened over one weekend. We’d already arranged with Virgin to record some songs in the studio as a three-piece. We had to carry on being positive. On the Friday night we all went to the 101 club in Clapham with Malcolm. He was really quiet cos he wasn’t very well. He was a bit strung out. Then we went back to my house and Malcolm said “I’m going to do a single and I want you to play on it Dave”. He asked all of us individually and we sort of agreed. So then on the Saturday and Sunday the three of us went into the studio and did this 3-track demo. That was really good. And Malcolm was back, so that was great. Then on the Monday morning the phone rings and its a friend of Malcolm’s. He’d phoned to say that he was going to break the news that Malcolm had been found dead in his bath. Malcolm had arranged to have a drink with him that lunchtime. So Malcolm had gone up for his bath and being the naughty boy that he was, he bought himself a little bag of heroin. I suppose to give himself a bit of a lift or whatever, and this is my interpretation of how he died. Because his resistance to it had gone right down and he had a hot bath, I think that he passed out and drowned. Technically, he had an overdose. So from then on all the things we did were kind of tainted by this. After his death we didn’t feel that we could replace Malcolm because it was essentially 4 people that got together and it was just right. All we did was music, so we thought we’d carry on. After much deliberation and compromise we came up with the name Ruts DC.

S.J: We were going to stay together because we were the best of friends still, and we really liked playing with each other cos musically the Ruts was a 3-piece anyway, with Malcolm on vocals, who I now acknowledge was 50% of the group. So we carried on just like that with no pretensions to be anything special. And we wanted some money out of Virgin, and I think Virgin actually said “No, you’re not going to change the name because we don’t want to lose any of the old sales.” So then we compromised and came up with Ruts DC. That’s partly why we got a lot of stick really. When Malcolm sort of started getting strung out, there was a rumour going around that he was on heroin. Then he went in the papers denying it. Then he got really bad and about 3 or 4 weeks after that admitted he was. So it all started getting a bit funny because heroin wasn’t very hip. Then people around us were hearing that ‘West One’ was coming out and saying it sounds a bit like Bad Company, rubbish things like that, beginning to slag us off a bit because of Malcolm’s condition. We made the single and everyone was going “ we don’t like this. It’s a bit sort of mainstream”. Then all of a sudden, Malcolm dies and bang - 4 records of the week, which is fair enough. Then because after that we kept Ruts DC we got a huge backlash, but the backlash was sort of there anyway. And also I couldn’t compare to Malcolm. It was a totally different thing. I was just singing and playing bass. I remember we played the Marquee as Ruts DC and still sold it out. Garry Bushell was like sort of just going into his Oi phase. It was a really good gig and it went down really well. I remember walking off stage and he was lying at the back, drunk and asleep. I kicked him and said “did you enjoy the gig?” and he mumbled “Yeah, yeah, yeah”. He’d had about 18 pints or something. Then the next thing I see in the paper is “own up Segs, you can’t sing, your stage presence isn’t there, gutless” and he sort of wrote it as a mate!

Were all of the Ruts DC releases on Virgin?
S.J: The first one was. Then we had a big argument with them and left and started our own label which was good because we’d come full circle then.

What was the argument with Virgin about?
D.R: We were stupid when we did our contract with them, and signed a really bad deal. Not much royalties. The various songs were cross-collateralised which basically meant we’d signed to Virgin Publishing as well. What happened was we already had a publisher on our side, a different company. They were good with us. They were going to put money into us and we were going to carry on together for a good while. Then suddenly they turned round and said “We’re really sorry but Virgin have pulled this cross-collateralisation act out. Whereas you were in credit to the tune of X-amount to the publishers, you are now in deficit of £84,000.” So we had a row with Virgin and left.

S.J: At the beginning me and Dave wanted to stay independent because that’s where we were at. That’s where we came out of. Malcolm and Paul both had wives, and didn’t basically. It’s as simple as that. They wanted to sign a deal. They said “All the marketing will be taken care of and we’ll just be able to concentrate on playing. We’ll get the money up front”. So we said alright in the end. We didn’t know. We’d just been gigging for about two years before that, and then ‘In A Rut’ came out and everyone went mad about us. So we ended up signing for Virgin. We’re now in debt to about £23,000. It’s taken 10 years to get down to this level. But I still do maintain now that it was better to have had a really bad deal, but had fun and released some great records than not at all. I don’t have any regrets about it. I can’t really afford to feel too bitter about it but I’d like justice. The point I think is wrong is that Virgin didn’t misinform us but they didn’t fully inform us either. They knew what they were doing. All record companies do and that’s what I hate.

If you were fortunate enough to catch the Ruts play live, you will understand why they were special. With a combination of hard-hitting songs and spontaneous actions/reactions, but never without a streak of humour, the Ruts always made the appearances memorable. And with Malcolm Owen as their frontman there was never a dull moment...
S.J: I think Malcolm would get embarrassed or bored with just being a singer, so he just used to muck about and start miming and stuff. We used to watch him all the time. We never got bored. He used to come over and make you laugh. There’s a great picture of him somewhere with his microphone in my eye. I remember once, at the Electric Ballroom I think it was, he took some mushrooms, and he went under the drum riser and he wouldn’t come out and we kept playing and kept playing, and he was going “I’m not coming out!”.

D.R: Occasionally what he’d do, especially with ‘In A Rut’, was to walk around and come up to my drums. I’d be playing and he’d be there being mischievous and stuff, and I’d just try to keep on drumming. Anyway, at this Exeter gig we did at the Routes club, he head butted a symbol just as I hit it and it came up and caught him. It wasn’t a deep cut luckily, but there was quite a lot of blood.
S.J: He walked to the front and he looked a real mess. He was really out of it so he had to be carried off. Later on he was being really naughty like running around the hospital and all that. In the ambulance I was going “Malcolm, are you alright?” a bit sort of worried, and he recognised Andy, our manager, and kept saying to him “Andy, who is he, who is he?” about me!

Did you ever tour outside the Britain?
S.J : We toured America with Ruts DC. As the Ruts I think we did one gig in Paris and one gig in Belgium.

D.R: Also we did 3 gigs in Yugoslavia and we did Amsterdam and Berlin. The Belgium show was for live TV. That was a fantastic night.

S.J: We got banned from Belgium after that. We got banned from Yugoslavia when we went there as well.

D.R: We just had too much fun and too much drink.

Did you sell many records outside Britain?
D.R: We were quite sort of big and hip in France. ‘Jah War’ was a bit of a hit there.

S.J: I remember at the time, we used to be kind of stupidly loyal to our English fans. So we’d tour all up and down England for a whole year, for say 40 dates and then thought we’d better go back around England again. So we cut our own throats really.