RM) Were the early Punks, like Siouxsie, middle class students? If
so, how did they feel when Punk was taken up by the masses?
Ron) No. The early
Punks were solidly working class. There was the art college mob,
they weren’t numerically very strong, but they were the most vivid
people, because of their appearance. They set the standard, the
tone, you know? But immediately behind that, by the time of the punk
festival of ‘76, the bulk of the audience was being formed by young,
working class people and they took it to their hearts at once.
RM) Were the movements roots biased towards the fashion element or
more towards the music side, or was it one package?
Ron) The fashion and
art side, you know, was where Siouxsie was coming from. They took it
very seriously, it was a new movement and they only had the one band
to start with. It was very arty, but it was an art movement that
worked. If you’d been there the first night I put the Pistols on, I
think it was March 30th 1976, and you saw the Bromley Contingent
coming in! They didn’t all come at once, they come in dribs and
drabs. Each time, it was breathtaking and jaw dropping just to see
them walk through that door. |
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RM) Were contemporary
Londoners shocked by the appearance of the early Punks?
Ron) Initially, yeah.
They’d got used to it by the end of that year. But initially, like
in the early months, absolutely.
RM) The summer of ’76 is famous for its heat wave. I bet you’ve
great memories of it?
RW) In that summer,
and remember that it was the hottest, the best summer in living
memory, it was the summer, people still talking about it now, and
nothing was happening, everybody was asleep, you know. Anyway, this
New Zealand film crew turned up to capture London. They’d been
dispatched from Auckland to film London, in the summer. They were
bright enough to cotton on to the movement, and they were haunting
me! I mean, they got so many yards, so many miles of film, some of
it’s not even been seen yet. All the main punk films, like the Rock
‘n Roll Swindle, The Filth and the Fury, were relying on their
footage. They were amazed when they got their first, full on,
Bromley Punk. They could not believe it. They said “You guys are 200
years ahead of New Zealand!”
RM) Were you interested about the politics in Punk?
Ron) I tried to keep
it at arms length. I wasn’t interested in sub-divisions.
RM) What about The Clash?
Ron) Didn’t know that
they were! (political). I think they were just trying to make it, I
mean, they latched on to it. The Pistols had got a lot of the market
wrapped up with their attitudes, so The Clash had to find some
attitude, and they probably cooked it up with their manager, I
reckon. What attitude can we have? Well, the Pistols have got this,
that and the other and they found the one that they could go for.
RM) I’ve read that the purists hated them, but I loved The Jam. They
flirted with politics early on, and then really got involved, with
Paul Weller joining Red Wedge later.
Ron) The Jam were some
of the biggest winners out of Punk. There was such a lot of talent
in that band. That band was so tight.
RM) Did you get more involved with them once they’d started to get
bigger?
Ron) They wanted me to
help them with their American tour, by going ahead from city to city
publicising it. But this was ’77, and I was amazed that their
manager John Weller had asked me, and I would’ve loved to have done
it. But, I was at the height of my promoting career, and I realised
that. So I said “No, I’ve got to stick with this.”
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RM) The Jam always felt like a band that, as a fan, you had a stake
in.
Ron) I tell you what,
they did a show for me at the 100 Club, when they’d been doing
really huge venues like the Hammersmith Odeon. They’d always said,
when we get there, we’ll come back and do one. They ended up doing
three for me. One at Wycombe Town Hall, one at the Nags Head, which
is a pub, you know! And, the 100 Club. They were really good like
that, and I appreciate what they did for me and I love ‘em to bits.
RM) It’s weird that there was all that acrimony between those
people, and even stranger that Rick, and now Bruce, are playing in a
Jam tribute band. (The Gift).
Ron) Good drummer. I
think, and this is my opinion, as I’ve no proof of it, that the
girls all used to go for Bruce Foxton. The band was great, and they
knew the band was great and they loved Paul Weller. But, in their
hearts they all fancied that they’d get off with Bruce Foxton. When
I did the box office at the 100 Club, there’d be all these girls
turning up in school uniforms. I’d be saying “How old are you?” and
the answer was always “19!” Am I really going to sell these girls
tickets?! |
RM) I read somewhere, years ago, that Sid Vicious and Paul Weller
had a fight after arguing about the Holidays in the Sun/ In the City
riff. Did you hear that one?
Ron) No. I can’t see
that. Paul Weller was from a tough, working class background. A
fight between him and Sid Vicious would have lasted about 8 seconds.
He would have dealt with Sid in no time at all. It didn’t happen.
Sid would need to have been tooled up, and I’ve had to fight him 3
times when he was. And I’m still here. Sid came at me with a chain,
once. I confiscated it, and wish I still had all these weapons, as I
could put them up for sale at Christies, couldn’t I?! And I saw Sid
with a knife, threatening Elle, the singer out the Stinky Toys with
it. I took that off him and gave it to Malcolm Mclaren. Wish I’d
kept it.
RM) Ron, did you have much to do with Rock Against Racism (R.A.R)?
Ron) Only in as much
as I endorsed it. And, I wouldn’t have any racist behaviour, as it
says in the book, in any of my venues. I just wouldn’t. No way, I
mean my bouncers were black, a lot of my acts were black, and I
wasn’t going to have it. There were a few occasions when it
surfaced, and I did the natural thing and let the black guys sort it
themselves.
RM) Empowerment?
Ron) Yeah. At Wycombe
Town Hall, the British movement guys were having a go at my bouncer,
Gerry. One black guy against twenty or thirty of them, so I said to
him “I’ll take your position, don’t be long, go down the pubs and
get your mates.” And he come back in with a dozen big black lads. I
said to them, “Look, you’re here to look after Gerry, not to kill
these white guys.” So, Gerry stood in front of them, and there
wasn’t a word out of them again! They moved out of the way, and went
down the other side of the hall, these bullies. They saw the odds
evening up a bit, and given the other 8 or 9 bouncers I had stood in
the hall, we would’ve murdered them.
RM) Jimmy Pursey went on-stage with The Clash at R.A.R in Victoria
Park. Was this damage limitation on Pursey’s behalf? He seemed to
get his fingers burned when the Skins affiliated to Sham 69.
Ron) Exactly. And I
don’t think he liked that one little bit. See, now, Jimmy Pursey is
another guy, like Paul Weller and Joe Strummer, probably all of them
at that time. Underneath he was a much nicer person than the media,
and the world, would realise and portray. He was an alright geezer
and he caught the wrong end of the backlash. People were believing
what he was portraying and singing about, and that wasn’t
necessarily him!
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RM) Did Sham 69 dance a bit to close the flame? They could be
perceived as “rabble rousing”, if you like.
Ron) They were looking
for something to hang their stick on, if you like. The Pistols found
it in one. Joe Strummer looked around with The Clash and thought
about it and did it, you know. The Jam done it through their potent
mix of soul and punk, and I think Jimmy Pursey thought he’d go with
the hard boys in the East End. The skinheads, and the mobsters and
the ruffians, you know.
RM) Musically, Sham 69 were similar to the Pistols…
Ron) Yeah, closer than
some. I liked Sham 69, they were alright. I think Pursey is another
guy who hung his hat somewhere, and that hat got on the wrong peg.
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